Decadence… ehm… Call for more contributors? :) 12 June, 2008
Since everyone here seems to be interested in destroying our community from the inside 
I’d like to throw my impressions and my ideas.
I think that, rather than thousand discussions about ethical/philosophical reasons behind this whole feeling (these discussions in the end are useless, in my opinion), what we should do is involving more guys from the community. Exactly.
The simple advantage of the free software is that everyone can contribute, and at the same time the disadvantage is that our biggest softwares are usually maintained/developed only by few guys…
The impression I had in these 2 years of experience as a GNOME dev is that _we_are_few_, and much of the ideas and features we have in mind can’t be done because the time is limited and two devs can’t work on 100 bugfix and 100 new features at the same time. Bugs have the priority, of course, so we will see only few features of the planned ones. But if these 2 devs were 6 (so 4 new contributors) I’m sure we would have seen a different scenario, with much more features implemented of the 100 requested
From my experience, unfortunately, much of the work I’ve done was done alone, without, for example, a couple of guys who could have helped me in getting the same things done quicker.
Seeing the number of new linux users that everyday are switching from other operating systems, I’m sure that the number of contributors should increase, that’s the way! Imagine 100 new gnome devs! ehehe too optimistic Imagine a free software world where everyone learns how to contribute with his small part, translating, doing a new icon, working on a plugin… the bugzilla *attach+patch+review* is so slow with only 2 devs for each module.
We should involve more guys, maybe I’m too optimistic, but it’s my vision. And, imho, this is the only way.
PS: maybe we could recruit guys from a special wiki page in GNOME Live, with the list of the modules/softwares that need help?
Posted in English, GNOME, GTK, Icons |
12 June, 2008 alle 13:21
Hi cimi,
I agree perfectly with you post, but in my opinion GNOME API are not so simple to understand and getting into it in few seconds, like some other framework in a higher programming languagues then C.
12 June, 2008 alle 13:36
@lizardking
exactly… developers consider kde api more comprehensible than gnome api, for example.
12 June, 2008 alle 13:57
Hey, I completely agree with you. It’s my opinion that the biggest problem is patch review rate. As a fairly new developer, I can say for certain that when patches don’t get reviewed, new developers feel alienated and unmotivated to do any work. Furthermore, there’s no real path for new contributors to learn more about the product and eventually become a maintainer. Having few maintainers and no way to gain new maintainers is a serious long-term problem.
So I think the discussion should really be all about increasing the patch review rate. Once that is solved, then the development rate will start to accelerate.
I really don’t think that the GNOME API is particularly complex or difficult to understand. GNOME should be looking for highly skilled new developers who are able to work out the API’s on their own. If new developers are unable to figure out GLib or Gtk+, they certainly won’t be able to understand application internals well enough to fix non-trivial bugs.
12 June, 2008 alle 14:05
Agree with the last 2 posts, comes to my mind that funny video of Ballmer shouting “developers, developers, developers ….” He was so right, that was why people liked windows so much, cause they have a lot of programs, cause they have a lot of monkeys that knew some lines in VB and dragging and dropping widgets on form is so easy…..
12 June, 2008 alle 14:34
Hi Cimi,
I was totally impressed to read this lines. And I agree with you at 100%.
I’m not a big programmer but I want to help in some other ways. My native language is german, so mabye I can help with translation support.
Also I work these days on a own “design blog”, my idea is to create a new Icon theme. It’s some kind of idea for gnome 3.0
So I really want to help. You can contact me under my mail adress, it would be very cool to hear from you.
Many thanks and best regards
Florian
12 June, 2008 alle 16:20
Hi,
).
I don’t think Glib/GTK+ C API is that hard to understand, I’m currently learning it and I must say that I’m impressed because it’s a well documented piece of software, which I think that allows everyone to understand it. Maybe C increases the verbosity of the programs but a well coded application (as many of the GNOME project are) it’s easy to understand. Even if C looks too hard to understand there are a lot of new GNOME applications that use bindings to other languages, like Postr or Tomboy for example, so there is nothing stopping the developers to choose Python or C# for new apps.
I agree with Cimi, GNOME needs more developers, maybe trying to spread the word about this issue on other sites, like Gnome-Look for artwork or distro-specific forums would help? I’m sure there are a lot of people who wants to help a little.
I hope I could help a little to the GNOME development in the future, but for now my free time is really limited (also I’m still a total n00b at C programming
Sorry for my crappy english :S.
Regards, from a GNOME fan.
12 June, 2008 alle 17:46
Nice post Cimi, we all should deliver this kind
of messages!
I’m awaiting for the special wiki page in GNOME Live,
maybe i’ll find something to do for this wonderful DE.
Bye!
12 June, 2008 alle 22:05
[...] Cimi says that we have a large userbase and a small number of developers, and the key to continued survival is to have more of the users become the developers. Then we have new blood, and new ideas, and also some help (good grief, I could clone myself four times over and still work full time on some of the work I have around here). [...]
13 June, 2008 alle 9:03
I’m not a programmer T_T
13 June, 2008 alle 22:25
I really like to contribute. And i agree with you. But I don’t have the time too learn all the API’s.
I think it would be great to make contributing as easy as using a software. I don’t know if it’s possible but if you could outsource little peaces of work that can easyly be done with a software, by everyone, it would be a step forward in including the comunity.
15 June, 2008 alle 0:50
Imagine that I am Ubuntu user with decent C or Vala or Python or C# or Java or Ruby… skills:
* I’m pissed with some bug that constantly hits me and I’m finally decided to fix it.
)
* I’m installing “ubuntu-devel” package.
* I’m clicking on desktop icon “Development environment” and Eclipse is executed with “live desktop development” perspective chosen.
* I’m clicking on icon “Debug running application” and dialog with list of running processes is shown.
* I’m choosing “bad” application from list and I’m choosing name for new Eclipse project.
* Eclipse is searching for application package name and soon downloads its source package from official Ubuntu repository.
* Package is automatically unpacked and compiled with debug symbols.
* I’m restarting bad application (e.g. “killall gnome-panel”).
* Application is magically started from my Eclipse project rather then from /usr/bin/… (ubuntu-devel package and eclipse did some clever stuff on background) and is waiting for debuger.
* Eclipse is switched into “Debug” perspective and attached to process.
* I’m debugging and repairing application.
* I’m developing my live desktop! (don’t try this with metacity
* When I’m finished, new package without debug symbols is compiled for me. I can install it and enjoy bug-free desktop ;).
* I’m clicking on icon “Send patch” and diff with description is send to application bugzilla.
And now I’m new Gnome developer!
15 June, 2008 alle 8:38
I’m relatively new to the programming world, but i would love to contribute with the project (I use Gnome since the very first alpha on slackware…decades now?). But i have some difficult to understand the skill level needed to join such a big project.
I think someone should put a single page to clarify WHAT you are looking at, minimum requirements in matter of time and skill and so on…
I would really love to be part of gnome.
15 June, 2008 alle 10:21
Here’s my opinion:
), and still fewer the coders who know the gnome API.
The problem is not the lack of people interested into contributing gnome. There are many of them around the web!! The problem is that very few of them are coders, fewer the experienced coders (we know, in such a big project high quality code is needed
The problem is how to involve users without (or with not so much) coding experience. Those users can design mockups, express impressions, request new features or maybe learn how to code. Now the gnome community exists and is all around the web, but can’t communicate properly (in the gnome website i can’t find a simple way to communicate with the community).
To do what i said before a “community center” is needed, maybe gnome can start with an international community forum where users and devs exchange ideas and collaborate. I have a my own forum and i experienced that it is a really good system to improve collaboration.
My 2 cents
15 June, 2008 alle 18:21
As long as people are required to learn AND understand C or C++ for that matter, the number of contributors will be limited.
Icons, translations etc… are only a tiny part. The big part is CODING work.
If Vala would be a language for non-coders, then this could really be a huge improvement. But Vala is just C 2.0 so the number of people that CAN contribute will always be small and not representive of the user base.
20 June, 2008 alle 13:45
@jean:
why don’t you put this idea on Brainstorm? and then let me know the # so I can vote it!!
@everybody:
do you think that gtkmm can be a solution for a semi-newbie but very willing C++ programmer (just used to Borland C++ Builder) to start from? thanks
23 June, 2008 alle 20:39
Agreed. Please see http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/4478/
7 July, 2008 alle 22:39
it’s a pain in the ass coding in c simple programs, you must write LOTS of code for every simple task…consider having REAL c++ api (not that horrifyng wrappers named gtkmm*) and it would be much easier to get ppl involved
*props to its author, but gnome ppl show no interest in that, and documentation sucks, as the learning curve/intuitivity
12 July, 2008 alle 12:11
First of all, congratulations for all your work
I agree with what has been said earlier: what are you looking for?
C developers for the engine itself, pygtk for configurator, icon designers, translators, anything?
24 July, 2008 alle 23:35
Since this is the GTK section I added my question here, but it’s not related at all with the post.
I’ve looking through your pages, and it seems u know a lot of gnome theming, engines, and that stuff, so here is the thing…
I’ve been reading the GDK documentation but don’t seem to find if there is a way to draw a line of certain color through a GDKWidget (without using an image), for example GDKMenuBar.
Thanks in advance,
Marco
1 August, 2008 alle 7:31
Please, give us the “Final” Murrine Engine!